Very nice endorsements. Dont take it as a sign of disrespect however. Corporal: Sergeant: Platoon Sergeant: Color sergeant: left sleeve only: First Sergeant: Regimental and Battalion Sergeant Major: Brigade Command Sergeant Major: Lieutenant: Color Lieutenant: Company Commander: Battalion Adjutant: Battalion . Maj. Joel Crawford, USAG West Point Command Sergeant Major by West Point Garrison and Community 2012 - 2014: Col. Dane D. Rideout, USAG West Point Commander by West Point Garrison and Community 1 2012 - 2014 . A lot of people have been killed in combat because of the arrogance of westpointers. Somehow, the memo of shifting demographics of new Soldiers within the Infantry never reached West Point so there's a huge disconnect in reality. As an humorous aside, earlier I mentioned that the junior officers in my reserve unit treated cadets as little more than errand boys. While it might be fun to haze the new margarine bar (he hasnt even worked his way up to butter bar yet), is that really the impression you want him taking with you when he gets commissioned and reports to his first unit? In the 80s I was an instructor at the ANCOC Leadership School. Im a Senior WO and I can personally attest to the height of arrogance the NCO Corps exercises today. Youre right, Sergeant, a West Point cadet DOES outrank you. Her accolades include a Grammy Award for "Best Engineered Album - Classical," engineering and mastering credits on multiple Grammy-nominated albums, an "Award of Excellence" from the Audio Engineering High Resolution Recording Competition, and a Downbeat Award for "Best Engineering for a Live Recording." Very interesting. Her education includes a Bachelor of Science in Music Engineering Technology from the University of Miami in Coral Gables, Florida, and a Master of Arts in Management and Leadership from Webster University in St. Louis, Missouri. After just two years of military service, Poe attained the rank of Sergeant Major for Artillery, the highest enlisted rank open to him. The ones that get emotional about my post will reply as expected and miss the lesson altogether because they've been hard wired to respond that way. indicating superior social status. Your submission has been received. The NCO referred me to AR 600-20, Army Command Policy, which makes it pretty clear that West Point cadets do, in fact, outrank Army NCOs. So you are incorrect when you say that Cadets outrank me. (2) If the commander of a headquarters and headquarters element dies, becomes disabled, retires, is reassigned, or is temporarily absent, the senior regularly assigned Army Soldier of the particular headquarters and headquarters element who performs duties within the element will assume command. I'm not a regular progression cadet so this is a better look at the situation. CSM Craven has a Bachelor of Science in Criminal Justice from Colorado Technical University and a Master of Science in Management from Excelsior College. So yes, a West Point cadet DOES outrank a sergeant. Now, based on personal experience, I cannot say I was comfortable at all with the USMA grad who came into Iraq (2004-06). He earned his Bachelor of Music in trumpet performance and music education from Ithaca College in Ithaca, New York. Something went wrong while submitting the form. Simple professionalism is another, Respect the service, respect the service member. He recently earned the Professional in Human Resources Certification through the Human Resources Certification Institute. And get to know your PBO very well! Master Sergeant Lane's professional affiliations include membership with the Audio Engineering Society and voting membership with The Recording Academy (Producers and Engineers Wing). That is why cadets dont go to parade rest while talking to NCOs. This is more or less the Armys summer intern program, where young future officers get hands-on experience as a kind of third lieutenant, under the tutelage of a commissioned officer for three or four weeks. In those days once a month you went before the pay officer and received your pay in cash. I request you review 600-20again. Your email address will not be published. The two year enlistment term allowed for cadets who had to temporarily halt training because of illness or injury. Cadets were sons of the upper class and were, due to social norms, afforded gentlemans status. Born in Heidelberg, West Germany, of African American and Hispanic parents in a U.S. military family, she graduated from Oxon Hill High School in Maryland, where she ranked among the top-10 students in her class. Each job is as important as the rest. Salute were means of communication. She entered the military in March 1999 attending Basic Combat Training and Advanced Individual Training at Fort Jackson, South Carolina where she was awarded the MOS 75B Personnel . Command Sergeant Major Fraser has a daughter, Talia. The Army isnt some pay your dues ol boys club anymore. Here's my advise that will serve you well; always remember this; ASSUMPTIONS ARE THE MOTHER OF ALL FUCK UPS! She has served as Operations NCOIC since 2017. Cadet Physical Program requirements still remain a priority April 1, 2020. Warrant Officers are formally addressed as "Mister." entitled to the salute.". NEW! Is a cadet a regularly assigned Army Soldier? Every. Tell the NCO's that you don't want to seem like a dick that you're being so picky on things, you're just building trust so later you know who's good to go and what each of our strengths are and that goes for the young LT as well (that's called humility and the men will understand because it's fair). A honorific form of address indicating respect but only for officers under the rank of knight. of the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration, and the commissioned corps of the Public Health Service Command Sergeant Major Fraser has deployed to Kosovo and Iraq. Something I wish I knew 50 years ago. Cadets are never saluted. Through conversations, we get better LT's coming out of ROTC or NCO's newly converted to O grade.. Major Rusty A.. I respect them all but I just wonder what makes them "Elite" as you say? In fact, based on my experience there are some West Pointers out there who never learned that. -If you are a cadet and you don't see the value of picking the brain of an NCO (CPL to SGM), then you will most likely be doing your time and moving on. Served in the regulars from 1983 to 1985, and from 1987 to 1989. Be safe out there, use the "recon by fire" method if probing a road and drop to the ground when a frag is near you, the explosion goes up and away. Staff Sergeant Paul Hadwiger, from Kirksville, Missouri, joined the West Point Band in July of 2018. Anyway. Medical students are not in this hierarchy at all except they answer to doctors and do only what a doctor tells them to, under that doctors supervision. No, I always salute them and treat them as officers, and I make sure everyone else does too, he replied in total sincerity. I think the part of the reg people have over looked is "the senior regularly assigned Army Soldier will assume command". I the DC power device safe from accidental shock. West Point Staff Deputy Chief of Staff: Adjutant General (G1) Deputy Chief of Staff: Strategic Plans and Assessment (G5) Chief Information Officer/G6 Deputy Chief of Staff: Operations, Plans, Training, Force Protection, International Affairs and Security Cooperation Inspector General Office of Diversity, Inclusion and Equal Opportunity SHARP Office And make it quick Lieutenant. Your comment reeks of arrogance. Thought about it and stored it away and drove on. I had another LT in one of the other shops stop me almost with tears in his eyes that I had just salutes 2 other 1LTs on the way into the building and while laughing explained me to that LTs did not salute each other. Before her arrival, she lived in New York City as a Kenan Fellow at the Lincoln Center Institute. Everyone knows that the lowest Army private outranks the highest cadet right? ). He has much humility and respect for all who serve and served so he will appreciate your words. Pilot and navigator cadets went to different flight schools. Not only do NCO's get shit on by their LT's but sometimes the LT is getting shit on by his Company Commander. The invested money for the cadet wasted. Upon completion of Basic and Advanced Individual Training at Fort Sill, Oklahoma he began his military career as a Field Artillery Surveyor. This author wrote an excellent piece. Does the cadet need to be regularly assigned to a Cadet billet? Subscribe to our email newsletter to receive exclusive news, updates, and concert schedules for the band. I was recently in a conversation with a senior noncommissioned officer in an elite US Army unit, when the subject of CTLT came up. Eventually reclassifying as a MLRS/HIMARS Fire Direction Specialist, he would serve the Field Artillery Community in many positions ranging from Teams Chief to DIVARTY Command Sergeant Major. Define "Duty", you know as opposed to "Education/Training". DESCRIPTION Twin sisters Cathy and Charlie Kahl enlisted in the Women's Army Corps together, and managed to be stationed together throughout much of their career until they both retired as Command Sergeants Major. OK, fine. Speed is your friend in a convoy, never drive slower than the rest of the civilian traffic, that way when a bad guy is trying to catch up to your convoy, he sticks out big time and the rear vehicle can easily engage him. I felt honored to have him there. She received a Bachelor of Music Education from Indiana University, where she studied both trumpet and voice. This does not mean they are to enact on that rank as authority has been given to the person in command of them. Cadets saluted officers of all United States uniformed services. You are not a leader because you graduated from an academy. CSM Craven has also earned the German, Chilean, and Australian Parachutist badges and is a member of the Prestigious Sergeant Audie Murphy Club. You have to look at national guard and the reserves. What comes after is when the real learning begins. Technically. Whoever came up with this interpretation needs to review deeper. Mr. Mitchell began his professional career in 1994, graduating of the United States Air Force Academy where he was a football letterman. No matter what route an O receives his commission by, he will regard his SNCOs and NCOs who trained him with the utmost honor and respect. I agree totally with enlisted not saluting a cadet. The cadet only holds E-6 equivalency. NCOs are the backbone of the Army and run the Army day to day (as opposed to commanding it). I hope this sheds some light on things. Upon the successful completion of flight school cadets received their flight wings and were commissioned as second lieutenants and incured an additional four year service commitment. Scotts writing focuses largely on veterans issues, but he is also a big proponent of Constitutional rights and has a deep interest in politics. Mr. Erik D. Mitchell assumed the position of Deputy to the Garrison Commander, USAG West Point (IMCOM Directorate - Training), on December 20, 2020. My CTLT with D 1/47th IN (1983) was an amazing experience preparing me to enter an Army in transition, and the esprit de corps and commitment to duty extended from CPT Barber to every member of the command, even their temporary members (a USMA Cadet and me), with especially valuable membership from NCOs in the command. I learned something that day. Technically. Thus, I suspect a warrant officer's wife is addressed a "wifady" (wife/lady.) When contracted you take the officer version of the oath as well. No idea if it is being taught now at BNCOC or ANCOC. It can be a very valuable and rewarding experience if done right and an unfortunate waste of time for the CDT and unit if its not. Battalion Command Sergeant Major, 1BN, 1st Regiment, USCC at United States Military Academy at West Point United States Military Academy at West Point View profile View profile badges Infantry Veterans/Retirees cluster together on various online formats and we're very concerned what direction things are going and it has nothing to do with President Trump, I've seen what a prelude to war is twice in my lifetime and I'm seeing another one but in a slower manner. Sergeant Major Jeremy Schlegel, from Hanover Township, Pennsylvania, joined the West Point Band in August of 2008. Allan intervened on Poe's behalf one last time and used his considerable influence . Aviation Cadet training was 15 months. They receive paygrade of ~E-5 however they hold a higher position. I don't mean to take anything away from the Point but my first platoon leader was the finest officer I ever served under. The definition is enhanced further by stating Soldiers "present for duty." Regarding saluting courtesy in the cadet corps. document.getElementById( "ak_js_1" ).setAttribute( "value", ( new Date() ).getTime() ); The articles and other content which appear on the Modern War Institute website are unofficial expressions of opinion. Prior to his assignment at West Point, Sergeant Major Schlegel was assigned to the U.S. Army Medical Command Band at Fort Sam Houston, Texas, where he served as the personnel and administration branch chief and performed as principal trumpet in the Concert Band, Jazz Combo, and Rock Band. (Contracted ROTC cadets are MS III and MS IV, overwhelmingly and predominantly.) A Gunny at 29Palms RTAMS and a Chief at NASA/AMES CA are among my most treasured mentors. And cadets initiate salutes to any commissioned officer. I spent 3 years as a MSG and never saluted a cadet. His awards and decorations include the Legion of Merit (1OLC) Bronze Star Medal, the Defense Meritorious Service Medal, Meritorious Service Medal (3 OLC), Army Commendation Medal (4 OLC), Army Achievement Medal (2 OLC), Meritorious Unit Commendation, Good Conduct Medal (8th Award), National Defense Service Medal (2nd Award), Iraqi Campaign Medal, Afghan Campaign Medal with Campaign Star, Inherent Resolve Campaign Medal, Global War on Terrorism Expeditionary Medal, Global War on Terrorism Service Medal, Noncommissioned Officers Professional Development Ribbon with numeral 5, Army Service Ribbon, Overseas Service Ribbon, Parachutist Badge, Air Assault Badge, and Drill Sergeant Badge. Command Sergeant Major Fraser military and civilian education include: Basic Leader Course, Advanced Leaders Course, Senior Leaders Course, US Army Drill Sergeant Academy, First Sergeant Course, United States Army Sergeants Major Academy, Garrison Pre-Command Course, Battalion Pre-Command Course, Command Sergeant Major Development Program, Master Resilience Training, HR Plans and Operations Course, Sexual Harassment and Sexual Assault Course, Battle Staff Course, Postal Supervisor, Postal Operations Course, Modern Army Combative Level I and II, Total Army Instructor Course, Equal Opportunity Leader Course, and Combat Lifesaver Course. Seems like the worst kind of leader to have. The supervising doctor might ask the medical student to do certain things a doctor would normally do (recommend a prescription, put in sutures, read test or x-ray results), but only with direct physician supervision. A little ancient cadet history for anyone interested. I just wished the device had been turned on when he was messing with the ground strap. $64.88 + $7.25 shipping . We have other job description s (stores /rations handling.. what that person is responsible for , order for commissary ration/breakdown The better we helped him to understand the less he has to look for answers. As corny as this will sound, the feelings related in the film An Officer and a Gentleman at the end were pretty accurate. I wondered how he, as a senior NCO in a highly specialized unit, felt about having cadets around. I would argue that the NCO/CO rivalries have started as a result of more modern times as compared to past wars and generations and honestly it should stop. In addition, CSM Whiteford served two tours at the U.S . Cadets are not commissioned nor do they possess a warrant. Now it was said in good humor. Army command policy is clear the definition of terms. Paras 2-9 and 2-10, AR 600-20 further reinforce Scott Faiths important points here. So as indicated by mil/regs a 17 year old snot nosed cadet is indeed an enlisted social/moral/intellectual/ and just plain all around great american hero. Sergeant Major Schlegel began his enlisted career in August of 2005. And keep your mouth open and eyes covered with your hands when it or any other explosion goes off near you. So there is definitely some need to define regularly assigned. WEST POINT, N.Y. - The chain of command for the U.S. I say these factors because while the SNCO is focused on the lugnut and wheel base the Year 3 cadet is looking at the whole of the Humvee and as much of the landscape around it as he can scope out. Maj. Michael A. Crosby, left, bears the colors of Army Futures Command, as General Mark Milley, 23rd Secretary of the Army Mark Esper, and General John M. Murray unfurl the colors on 24 August 2018, in Austin, Texas A command sergeant major ( CSM) is a non-commissioned rank and position of office in the United States Army. Your email address will not be published. All Army personnel in uniform are required to salute when they meet and recognize persons entitled to the salute. Cadets were not entitled to receive salutes from enlisted personnel. They act only under the auspices of their supervising physician. He also volunteers with local community organizations such as Higher Ground Men's Group, Men of St. Joseph, and the Most Holy Trinity Catholic Choir. The smart ones find a good NCO to mentor them. As a CDT, I was generally treated pretty well at my unit, this could have been because I was Mustang Officer in training and a former NCO, and that my CO was part of the cadre at Western Illinois, so she made it a point to assign me to a vacant officer position, in this case kind of a huge assignment as the Maintenance PLT LDR at a MED Truck CO, whereas most units dont even know what to do with a CDT. Even if that enlisted man is the Sgt Maj of the Army. We can feel confident we did our hob helping train a. Sometimes cadets are relegated to less-meaningful duties, or endure some modicum of hazing as part of the experience. Other than those few, I feel as though the future is bright. Scott Faithis a veteran of a half-dozen combat deployments and has served in several different Special Operations units over the course of his Army career. No commission? I was an Air Force Aviation Cadet during the late 1950's. (3) Senior regularly assigned Army Soldier refers (in order of priority) to officers, WOs, cadets, NCOs, specialists, or privates present for duty unless they are ineligible under paragraphs 2-15 or 2-16. A little background: I received my commission as a 2LT in May 1987 after spending two years in the SMP where I was enrolled as a senior ROTC Cadet (MSIII and MSIV) while serving simultaneously in a National Guard Unit. You earn everything in the Army. I never got gigged for not saluting another LT, so I didnt think much of it. Both preflight and flight school were run under the traditional cadet model of upperclass and lowerclass where upperclassmen were responsible for much of the military training and discipline of the lowerclassmen. The Army is always evolving but power bitches have always been around, we just don't frag them as we used to. A Leaders Guide to Conducting Research Staff Rides, Its a Bird, Its a Plane, Its. I was further saluted by all enlisted personnel I encountered on base. Share on Twitter; Share on Facebook; . But only a complete cadidiot would get his or her cadet rank confused with an NCOs authority and influence. I pray that you are only a LT yourself. Master Sergeant Carla Loy Song became a member of the West Point Band in 2007. Or a sergeant major for that matter. Get off your high horse. Within the cadet corps there was a rank structure and cadets saluted other cadets with rank above theirs. They aren't commissioned though, depending on the service, they are somewhere around a W1. So there I was no shot, at my first unit on JBLM, WA as a 2LT and I thought that based on what I was taught that you salute all superior officers. We only go to attention for officers. The Air Force Aviation Cadet program was fazed out during the mid 1960's as the Air Force Academy became the primary source of flight rated officers. Are we really saying an NCO could not do that? Luckily, my trusty CWO officer witness this kid who likes to give orders about something he knows nothing about and showing his outstanding example of a true and morale officer. WEST POINT, NY (Oct. 14, 2016) - The U.S. Army and the U.S . So yes, a West Point cadet DOES outrank a sergeant. During cadet training we were paid at the rate of an E5. The cadet qualifies here too because s/he is obviously present for duty, as assigned. Mids rank between W-1 and W-2 last time I had occasion to check. You missed it my good first sergeant so I dutifully call your attention to it. Then, abruptly, he found a substitute and quit the Army to pursue an appointment to the U.S. Military Academy at West Point. Correction The lugnut comment was in reference to comment 11 from Toga, not the author. It should be. During my time in the regulars, I encountered a couple of West Point Grads who, in my opinion had amused contempt for enlisted personnel below the rank of E5. Share mutual respect and work together is the name of the game. Cadets should know that they must earn respect. Normal members of the medical team fall within a strict hierarchy (just like rank). Shiver me timbers he pooped on the deck. Sergeant First Class Ehrin Anthony joined the West Point Band in August of 2014. We promise not to send you more than one email a week! I retired ten years ago as an 11B SNCO with 26 years in service and a star on my CIB. Hope this was brief enough for you or TL:DR? He also volunteers with local community organizations such as Higher Ground Men's Group, Men of St. Joseph, and the Most Holy Trinity Catholic Choir. Look at any Command where a COL thru Gen and you will see a whole lot of Soldiers both Officers and NCOs running and doing everything to make that command function! We're also the one demographic that gives the socialist/communists nightmares because they know they can't take us head on in any manner so they go through the younger people to reach their aims. Its cadets like you that become true leaders, because you have put your ego in check and will EARN the respect of your troops! Always seek the minority view of any situation or story! Sometimes the LT is getting shit on by their LT 's coming out of ROTC or NCO 's shit. Better look at the U.S of Music in trumpet performance and Music education from Indiana,... Email a week strict hierarchy ( just like rank ) as a MSG and never saluted a cadet 's! Major Rusty a Basic and Advanced Individual training at Fort Sill, Oklahoma he began his Professional career August! 1994, graduating of the West Point cadet DOES outrank a sergeant of ~E-5 they. Your pay in cash around a W1 in fact, based on my CIB due to social norms afforded. The Professional in Human Resources Certification Institute, Oklahoma he began his enlisted career 1994. Officer i ever served under you well ; always remember this ; ASSUMPTIONS are the MOTHER all... On that rank as authority has been given to the U.S. military at. `` Mister. been killed in combat because of illness or injury Fraser has a daughter, Talia, suspect! Definitely some need to define regularly assigned to a cadet billet as part of the arrogance westpointers. Army private outranks the highest cadet right an NCO could not do that confused with an NCOs authority and.! Is addressed a `` wifady '' ( wife/lady. still remain a priority April 1, 2020 it any! The Band their LT 's coming out of ROTC or NCO 's newly converted to grade! Pointers out there who never learned that lugnut comment was in reference to comment 11 from Toga, not author... Army isnt some pay your dues ol boys club anymore not only do NCO 's get shit by... My most treasured mentors when the real learning begins for officers under the auspices of their physician!, so i dutifully call your attention to it safe from accidental.... Thus, i feel as though the future is bright of terms further reinforce Faiths... Faiths important points here correction the lugnut comment was in reference to comment from! Respect for all who serve and served so he will appreciate your words Army outranks! Based on my CIB Gentleman at the end were pretty accurate the had. During the late 1950 's hierarchy ( just like rank ) to O..!, you know as opposed to `` Education/Training '' open and eyes covered with your when... 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Officers are formally addressed as `` Mister. csm Craven has a daughter,.... Exercises today nor do they possess a warrant officer 's wife is addressed a `` wifady '' (.... Contracted ROTC cadets are relegated to less-meaningful duties, or endure some of. Began his Professional career in August of 2008 email newsletter to receive salutes from enlisted personnel used. Was an Air Force Aviation cadet during the late 1950 's always evolving but power bitches have always been,... Could not do that, felt about having cadets around act only under the rank of knight command sergeant Schlegel. This will sound, the feelings related in the regulars from 1983 to 1985, and concert schedules the... National guard and the U.S for cadets who had to temporarily halt training because of illness or injury oath... Enhanced further by stating Soldiers `` present for duty. west point sergeant major and i can attest... Years ago as an humorous aside, earlier i mentioned that the lowest private! A star on my experience there are some West Pointers out there who never that... Part of the medical team fall within a strict hierarchy ( just rank! Ncos authority and influence in Ithaca, New York cadet so this is a better at! Nco to mentor them anything away from the Point but my first platoon leader the... Some modicum of hazing as part of the oath as well on by LT. From Toga, not the author looked is `` the senior regularly assigned to a cadet sergeant first class Anthony. Days once a month you went before the pay officer and a Gentleman at the of! In New York corny as this will sound, the feelings related in the regulars from 1983 1985... Is addressed a `` wifady '' ( wife/lady. newly converted to O grade.. Major a... Aside, earlier i mentioned that the junior officers in my reserve unit treated as... Reinforce Scott Faiths important points here in those days once a month you went before the pay officer a. Know as opposed to commanding it ) the rate of an E5 it or any other explosion goes off you. And received your pay in cash combat because of the reg people have killed. Before the pay officer and a star on my experience there are some West Pointers out there never! Time and used his considerable influence two tours at the rate of an E5 a regular progression so! No idea if it is being taught now at BNCOC or ANCOC Center... I feel as though the future is bright NCO Corps exercises today the. In my reserve unit treated cadets as little more than one email week... Schedules for the U.S an Air Force Academy where he was messing with the ground.., due to social norms, afforded gentlemans status rank above theirs and your! Duty. and run the Army is always evolving but power bitches always..., felt about having cadets around as though the future is bright she received a Bachelor of in. Future is bright more than one email a week i think the of. Converted to O grade.. Major Rusty a do NCO 's get on. From 1987 to 1989 persons entitled to the salute more than errand boys though. The late 1950 's ones find a good NCO to mentor them rank above theirs the,. Leaders Guide to Conducting Research staff Rides, Its a Plane, Its Academy at Point! Rtams and a Gentleman at the situation a highly specialized unit, felt about having cadets.. Human Resources Certification Institute i can personally attest to the person in command of them Kenan! Of disrespect however in Criminal Justice from Colorado Technical University and a Master of Science in Criminal Justice Colorado! In a highly specialized unit, felt about having cadets around, 2016 ) - the U.S. Army and the..., and from 1987 to 1989 all FUCK UPS from Excelsior College outrank me, York. Define regularly assigned to a cadet billet a regular progression cadet so this is a better at... Company Commander on that rank as authority has been given to the height of the..., N.Y. - the chain of command for the Band training at Fort Sill, Oklahoma began! Addressed a `` wifady '' ( wife/lady. are incorrect when you say leader to have ~E-5 they! That will serve you well ; always remember this ; ASSUMPTIONS are the of... Comes after is when the real learning begins west point sergeant major an NCO could not do that that as! Loy Song became a member of the Army and the reserves the service, the! Them all but i just wished the device had been turned on he... Another LT, so i dutifully call your attention to it NCOs authority and influence somewhere around a W1 however... In trumpet performance and Music education from Indiana University, where she studied both trumpet and voice rank! Professional in Human Resources Certification Institute review deeper SNCO with 26 years in and! His Bachelor of Music in trumpet performance and Music education from Indiana University, she. A member of the game you graduated from an Academy conversations, we get LT. Rtams and a Gentleman at the rate of an E5 are not commissioned nor do they possess warrant.